Transcription of Interview with Mr. Timothy Sweeney
Q: Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?
A: Not at all.
Q: Alright then. First of all, how did you get interested in working with the death penalty?
A: Um - well - I was a lawyer in a law firm in Cleveland when I was a young lawyer and we started to work on a few death penalty cases on a pro bono basis. Do you know what pro bono means?
Q: No, I’m sorry.
A: It means without any fees, so for free. So my law firm got involved in doing work for death row inmates when I was a younger lawyer. I really enjoyed that type of work. It’s incredibly challenging work - the type of law is very interesting - it’s always changing. And the inmates who are being accused are in such great need of good legal assistance. They appreciate so much that lawyers are willing to work for them and fight for them. So that is basically how I started to get involved.
Q: Okay so what does it actually take to go to a judge and then actually get somebody off of death row if that’s the case that you’re in?
A: Well it can happen a lot of different ways. I mean the first and the best way is when the guy is being tried for his crime or in other words when he is facing trial for the crimes he or she committed. The best way to avoid a death sentence and to avoid fighting for him to get off death row is to make sure he doesn’t get on death row in the first place. So you want to be as good as you can possibly be in the trial to convince the jury - or better yet the judge - that a death sentence is not the appropriate punishment for the particular crime committed. There is a case going on right now in Cleveland where a guy was convicted of a capital crime just a couple weeks ago, and in the next few days, his lawyers are going to be fighting in the litigation stage of his case - which is the phase of the case where you try to persuade the jury that they should not sentence him to death. So the best way to avoid a death sentence is to win at trial - to get the jury to believe whoever is convicted should receive a penalty less than death. If that doesn’t happen, the process is just a very long process. There are so many different appeals that you go through and I think that the thing you need more than anything else is capacity. Do you know what that means?
Q: No… I should though.
A: Oh no- it’s fine. It means that you’re willing to fight like heck and not give up for your client and be willing to try whatever you can to persuade the court that you’re in front of that your client - even if you know he may have done something awful and terrible and for which he deserves to be punished - should not be executed for that crime. You need great capacity I think more than anything to get somebody - persuade a court to get somebody - off death row.
Q: Okay. As you know, I am doing a project on the death penalty that I will be presenting to my classmates. Do you have any stories that would help my classmates to understand what the death penalty really is and how it affects others?
A: A good source?
Q: Uh no just - um - how does if affect people who might be put on trial for this sort of thing?
A: You want me to tell you what I think about that?
Q: Sure.
A: Is that what you’re asking?
Q: Yes, that is what I am asking.
A: Oh! Um how does it affect people? Well you know it is a very emotional thing. It affects really everybody who is involved in the process. I mean there is the defendant himself - the person who has been convicted and sentenced to death. That person has to live knowing that at some point, the state is going to come and get him and take him to be executed. That is a very terrible thing to have to have somebody living with that fact.
It affects the family of the victim. The poor person - the person who was murdered - that person’s family always remembers their loved one and often times that family really wants to see that person be executed. That’s not always the case. Sometimes you find families that don’t want that person to be killed. But, those people get very emotional as well about the process. The family of the person on death row - they suffer because their family member is facing death and as that date becomes closer and closer, it becomes very very traumatic. I’ve got a guy who’s going to be executed on January 12th this year. That is very very soon. You can only imagine what he is going through right now. He knows he will die in less than two months with the sentence being carried out. For him and his family it is a very very frightening and scary and traumatic time.
I think that really for everybody in the process it’s a very emotional thing. But if you look at people who have to carry out the sentence - people working for the state who have to conduct the execution - I mean those people go through great emotions as well. So I really think that it is just a very emotional thing for everyone.
Q: Thank you for that answer. Why do you think that this is such an important issue?
A: Because it speaks to our willingness as a society to forgive and to recognize that people do make mistakes and that everyone is a human being. And that the choice to live or die - in my view - doesn’t belong in the hands of state governments or judges and jury members. It isn't something that we should be doing. That is an important part of the issue to think about and reflect on. The only reason that we have the death penalty in the United States of America is because states permit it. I mean - do you know how many states have capital punishment that goes along with the death penalty?
Q: I forget the exact number but I know for a fact that it is definitely a good majority.
A: Yes - there are some thirty states that are death penalty states. But, there are also a lot of states that don’t and many states are starting to move away from that idea. So at this day and age it seems to be going away. The number of death sentences are down tremendously from prior years. Juries are just not sentencing nearly as many people to death as they used to. So there could be a time when these things change but the only reason we have it is because people have permitted it to occur. It is something that people can vote against and can pass a law that says it can’t happen. So it is totally in our ability to make a change and it should change.
Q: And along with that how much hope do you think there is in ending this penalty - not only in the state of Ohio but nationwide?
A: Hope?
Q: Yeah.
A: Hope? Um… I think there is a lot of hope. I think there is a lot of hope but there has been some bad news. Recently, California had a referendum on the ballot to do away with the death penalty. That referendum did not pass. That was disappointing. Another state, Oklahoma, did too. They had a referendum on their ballot last week or whenever the election was. That did not pass, too. You know that was a setback but there is still hope. Like I said the number of sentences has gone way way down. A lot of states are moving away from it. You know that is a good sign for people who think it should someday go away.
Q: Yes and how do people react when you help them or try to stop the penalty?
A: Well the people who I represent - my clients - they like the fact that they’ve got a lawyer fighting for them. They really do. They need good representation when they’re in this kind of position. There are a lot of people, though, who are just members of the public who don’t like lawyers who represent people on death row. They call you names or send you nasty emails or things like that. But, that doesn’t happen very often. There are a lot of people who have very strong emotions. Some people can be very unreasonable about how they express their emotions and sometimes that leads into anger. I guess that is just part of the job.
Q: I’ve been reading some articles on how public opinion regarding the death penalty has changed in the last few decades. Does that help the cause of abolishing the penalty?
A: It does because one of the issues with respect to capital punishment is whether it is constitutional or not. It is an issue because it questions whether the death penalty is cruel or unusual punishment. There is a provision in the Constitution in the Bill of Rights that does prohibit cruel and unusual punishment. So the way that the Supreme Court has looked at that - whether something is cruel and unusual punishment - is that they rely on something which they call the evolving standards of decency. So as people’s opinions evolve and change, the court's’ view of what is constitutional under that provision changes. And so as people become less willing to sentence others to death, that is a factor a court might look at when deciding whether the punishment is constitutional anymore. So as standards change and evolve, that is a good sign for people who believe that our Constitution should be interpreted to prohibit this method of punishment. This is something that our society has evolved and changed to believe: that the death penalty should not be tolerated or permitted.
Those kinds of changes have happened gradually. For example, you do not execute juveniles for crimes they committed. The Supreme Court said no, our society does not permit executing people under eighteen when they commit a capital crime. So, no longer is that even permitted. The hope is that eventually the court will come to the point where they say that no longer are we going to permit the death penalty under these evolving standards of decency.
Q: Okay. I don’t need to know an exact number, but how many cases have you worked on?
A: Death penalty cases? Maybe a dozen.
Q: Oh wow. That seems like a lot.
A: Yeah, it does.
Q: You were kind of touching on this earlier, but is it hard to get people- if they do go past the initial trial - out of the possibility of going on death row?
A: It gets harder and harder. If you don’t get released, if you don’t avoid the death sentence trial, if you don’t convince the jury that the death sentence is the wrong punishment, then it only becomes more difficult because of the way the courts are set up. If you lose a trial, you have to win it on appeal. It just gets harder every step of the way. That’s not saying it’s not possible, but it is very rare to get released on an appeal or at a federal court.
If you are sentenced to death in the state of Ohio, you get to go through all of the courts in the state of Ohio and have them review your sentence. That could mean 10 years of litigation and then you’ll go into the federal courts. As the federal courts review your case, it could take another 5-10 years of litigation. Often times, people sentenced to death don’t even face their penalty for another 15-20 years because of all of the appeals. And as you work your way through the appeals, it only gets harder to get off of death row. And the guy I was talking about earlier - we’re still fighting for him and although the chances are slim of getting him off death row, we’re still trying. It’s just a very lengthy process.
Q: This just popped into my head but if you do get off of death row, then would you receive any time in jail? Or would you just be off the hook?
A: Usually, unless you are found innocent or the reason why you are at court is found to be unlawful, you still have to serve some time in jail. With most of these cases, you are just trying to prove the death penalty is the wrong penalty. So if you get released on the sentence, generally you remain in prison for the rest of your life. You aren’t really released when you are released. You just get put into the general population of the prison. You serve your sentence like anyone else. Unless the governor sets you free, you’re stuck to serve that life sentence. So unless you challenge the conviction, and prevail in that argument, then you are released. But if you are arguing not being sentenced to death and you are released, it generally means life imprisonment.
Q: Well thank you so much - that was very helpful.
A: Thank you! I hope I helped.
A: Not at all.
Q: Alright then. First of all, how did you get interested in working with the death penalty?
A: Um - well - I was a lawyer in a law firm in Cleveland when I was a young lawyer and we started to work on a few death penalty cases on a pro bono basis. Do you know what pro bono means?
Q: No, I’m sorry.
A: It means without any fees, so for free. So my law firm got involved in doing work for death row inmates when I was a younger lawyer. I really enjoyed that type of work. It’s incredibly challenging work - the type of law is very interesting - it’s always changing. And the inmates who are being accused are in such great need of good legal assistance. They appreciate so much that lawyers are willing to work for them and fight for them. So that is basically how I started to get involved.
Q: Okay so what does it actually take to go to a judge and then actually get somebody off of death row if that’s the case that you’re in?
A: Well it can happen a lot of different ways. I mean the first and the best way is when the guy is being tried for his crime or in other words when he is facing trial for the crimes he or she committed. The best way to avoid a death sentence and to avoid fighting for him to get off death row is to make sure he doesn’t get on death row in the first place. So you want to be as good as you can possibly be in the trial to convince the jury - or better yet the judge - that a death sentence is not the appropriate punishment for the particular crime committed. There is a case going on right now in Cleveland where a guy was convicted of a capital crime just a couple weeks ago, and in the next few days, his lawyers are going to be fighting in the litigation stage of his case - which is the phase of the case where you try to persuade the jury that they should not sentence him to death. So the best way to avoid a death sentence is to win at trial - to get the jury to believe whoever is convicted should receive a penalty less than death. If that doesn’t happen, the process is just a very long process. There are so many different appeals that you go through and I think that the thing you need more than anything else is capacity. Do you know what that means?
Q: No… I should though.
A: Oh no- it’s fine. It means that you’re willing to fight like heck and not give up for your client and be willing to try whatever you can to persuade the court that you’re in front of that your client - even if you know he may have done something awful and terrible and for which he deserves to be punished - should not be executed for that crime. You need great capacity I think more than anything to get somebody - persuade a court to get somebody - off death row.
Q: Okay. As you know, I am doing a project on the death penalty that I will be presenting to my classmates. Do you have any stories that would help my classmates to understand what the death penalty really is and how it affects others?
A: A good source?
Q: Uh no just - um - how does if affect people who might be put on trial for this sort of thing?
A: You want me to tell you what I think about that?
Q: Sure.
A: Is that what you’re asking?
Q: Yes, that is what I am asking.
A: Oh! Um how does it affect people? Well you know it is a very emotional thing. It affects really everybody who is involved in the process. I mean there is the defendant himself - the person who has been convicted and sentenced to death. That person has to live knowing that at some point, the state is going to come and get him and take him to be executed. That is a very terrible thing to have to have somebody living with that fact.
It affects the family of the victim. The poor person - the person who was murdered - that person’s family always remembers their loved one and often times that family really wants to see that person be executed. That’s not always the case. Sometimes you find families that don’t want that person to be killed. But, those people get very emotional as well about the process. The family of the person on death row - they suffer because their family member is facing death and as that date becomes closer and closer, it becomes very very traumatic. I’ve got a guy who’s going to be executed on January 12th this year. That is very very soon. You can only imagine what he is going through right now. He knows he will die in less than two months with the sentence being carried out. For him and his family it is a very very frightening and scary and traumatic time.
I think that really for everybody in the process it’s a very emotional thing. But if you look at people who have to carry out the sentence - people working for the state who have to conduct the execution - I mean those people go through great emotions as well. So I really think that it is just a very emotional thing for everyone.
Q: Thank you for that answer. Why do you think that this is such an important issue?
A: Because it speaks to our willingness as a society to forgive and to recognize that people do make mistakes and that everyone is a human being. And that the choice to live or die - in my view - doesn’t belong in the hands of state governments or judges and jury members. It isn't something that we should be doing. That is an important part of the issue to think about and reflect on. The only reason that we have the death penalty in the United States of America is because states permit it. I mean - do you know how many states have capital punishment that goes along with the death penalty?
Q: I forget the exact number but I know for a fact that it is definitely a good majority.
A: Yes - there are some thirty states that are death penalty states. But, there are also a lot of states that don’t and many states are starting to move away from that idea. So at this day and age it seems to be going away. The number of death sentences are down tremendously from prior years. Juries are just not sentencing nearly as many people to death as they used to. So there could be a time when these things change but the only reason we have it is because people have permitted it to occur. It is something that people can vote against and can pass a law that says it can’t happen. So it is totally in our ability to make a change and it should change.
Q: And along with that how much hope do you think there is in ending this penalty - not only in the state of Ohio but nationwide?
A: Hope?
Q: Yeah.
A: Hope? Um… I think there is a lot of hope. I think there is a lot of hope but there has been some bad news. Recently, California had a referendum on the ballot to do away with the death penalty. That referendum did not pass. That was disappointing. Another state, Oklahoma, did too. They had a referendum on their ballot last week or whenever the election was. That did not pass, too. You know that was a setback but there is still hope. Like I said the number of sentences has gone way way down. A lot of states are moving away from it. You know that is a good sign for people who think it should someday go away.
Q: Yes and how do people react when you help them or try to stop the penalty?
A: Well the people who I represent - my clients - they like the fact that they’ve got a lawyer fighting for them. They really do. They need good representation when they’re in this kind of position. There are a lot of people, though, who are just members of the public who don’t like lawyers who represent people on death row. They call you names or send you nasty emails or things like that. But, that doesn’t happen very often. There are a lot of people who have very strong emotions. Some people can be very unreasonable about how they express their emotions and sometimes that leads into anger. I guess that is just part of the job.
Q: I’ve been reading some articles on how public opinion regarding the death penalty has changed in the last few decades. Does that help the cause of abolishing the penalty?
A: It does because one of the issues with respect to capital punishment is whether it is constitutional or not. It is an issue because it questions whether the death penalty is cruel or unusual punishment. There is a provision in the Constitution in the Bill of Rights that does prohibit cruel and unusual punishment. So the way that the Supreme Court has looked at that - whether something is cruel and unusual punishment - is that they rely on something which they call the evolving standards of decency. So as people’s opinions evolve and change, the court's’ view of what is constitutional under that provision changes. And so as people become less willing to sentence others to death, that is a factor a court might look at when deciding whether the punishment is constitutional anymore. So as standards change and evolve, that is a good sign for people who believe that our Constitution should be interpreted to prohibit this method of punishment. This is something that our society has evolved and changed to believe: that the death penalty should not be tolerated or permitted.
Those kinds of changes have happened gradually. For example, you do not execute juveniles for crimes they committed. The Supreme Court said no, our society does not permit executing people under eighteen when they commit a capital crime. So, no longer is that even permitted. The hope is that eventually the court will come to the point where they say that no longer are we going to permit the death penalty under these evolving standards of decency.
Q: Okay. I don’t need to know an exact number, but how many cases have you worked on?
A: Death penalty cases? Maybe a dozen.
Q: Oh wow. That seems like a lot.
A: Yeah, it does.
Q: You were kind of touching on this earlier, but is it hard to get people- if they do go past the initial trial - out of the possibility of going on death row?
A: It gets harder and harder. If you don’t get released, if you don’t avoid the death sentence trial, if you don’t convince the jury that the death sentence is the wrong punishment, then it only becomes more difficult because of the way the courts are set up. If you lose a trial, you have to win it on appeal. It just gets harder every step of the way. That’s not saying it’s not possible, but it is very rare to get released on an appeal or at a federal court.
If you are sentenced to death in the state of Ohio, you get to go through all of the courts in the state of Ohio and have them review your sentence. That could mean 10 years of litigation and then you’ll go into the federal courts. As the federal courts review your case, it could take another 5-10 years of litigation. Often times, people sentenced to death don’t even face their penalty for another 15-20 years because of all of the appeals. And as you work your way through the appeals, it only gets harder to get off of death row. And the guy I was talking about earlier - we’re still fighting for him and although the chances are slim of getting him off death row, we’re still trying. It’s just a very lengthy process.
Q: This just popped into my head but if you do get off of death row, then would you receive any time in jail? Or would you just be off the hook?
A: Usually, unless you are found innocent or the reason why you are at court is found to be unlawful, you still have to serve some time in jail. With most of these cases, you are just trying to prove the death penalty is the wrong penalty. So if you get released on the sentence, generally you remain in prison for the rest of your life. You aren’t really released when you are released. You just get put into the general population of the prison. You serve your sentence like anyone else. Unless the governor sets you free, you’re stuck to serve that life sentence. So unless you challenge the conviction, and prevail in that argument, then you are released. But if you are arguing not being sentenced to death and you are released, it generally means life imprisonment.
Q: Well thank you so much - that was very helpful.
A: Thank you! I hope I helped.